I have a question for all you theology sorts. I’ve been thinking about it a lot lately, and I have been unable to resolve the issue for myself. I even tried texting my pastor but I had technical difficulties in the process. The question: Why is the tithe a tenth?
Frequent readers of this blog are aware of my preoccupation with Genesis, but I was reading in Genesis (surprise, surprise) last week, and the question occurred to me, “Is the tithe a tenth because God said so, or because that was what Abraham (and, later, Jacob) gave?”
In other words, is the tenth honoring God or is the tenth God honoring us? If Abraham had given Melchizedek 17%, or, if Jacob had said, “surely I will give thee a ninth” would our Sunday morning math be a lot more complicated? God could have very easily commanded 47.3% after all.
I don’t want this to be a discussion of tithing, per se. My humble opinion is that the tithe is no longer required under the law, but I think the spirit of the tithe is alive and well, and the blessings therefrom readily available. I still think we can make the whole lump (of money, labor, time, etc.) holy by offering the first fruits of same to God.
Nevertheless, why a tenth? Thoughts, ideas, comments?
#1 by John Gnotek on February 27, 2009 - 11:05 am
Tithing is a Jewish thing. 10%? If we are to believe what we read in the bible, in Acts and in Jesus’ own words, I think it’s pretty clear tithing is the 100% giving of self—mind, body and possessions.
If you dutifully tithe 10%, yet pass a brother in need on the street, have you really fulfilled your “obligation?”
#2 by petermlopez on February 27, 2009 - 1:11 pm
I agree entirely with what you are saying. My question was more specifically with why the determined amount (be it Old Testament or not) is 10%). Thanks for reading, John.
#3 by Caribbean Shulamite on February 27, 2009 - 8:20 pm
Very interesting to find you have the same view as I do re the tithe (I even run counter to the my church’s view but I won’t major on what is relatively minor stuff’ all else considered). Interesting also, that because of the money pressure the church I recently left put on members (re tithe and offerings and faith seed and a whole lot of other ‘things’), I once did a study myself on this starting from Genesis to the end of everything else I could find re the tithe and later, money/giving.
I did wonder much the same thing, as, was it upheld because Abraham started it?
I don’t know whether God was pleased with the gift amount and just decided to let it be the standard, or perhaps they ‘tapped into’ something that pleased God from their relationship with Him and just their desire to know.love.obey Him – without Him needing to command it…Another little area where the Word is so vast on every point and we’ve got no hope of understanding any of it without Him.
#4 by Hans Zeunert on February 28, 2009 - 11:29 pm
According to the Unified Mind Theory, and I believe in it since I wrote it, God has created Man in His Image, not to keep on feeding an ever hungry moloch, devouring his children. However, it is nice to pay for services rendered in the maintenance of the Holy Book, particularly the New Testament, and for that we need the clergy. This has worked great for the past 2,000 years. Tithing is more like tipping. It is to say “thank you”. If you take it as paying for personal salvation, it may pay for sin committed in spite of your inner, tiny voice, speaking on behalf of your higher self, recommending against it. You may wish to pay because if God exists, how horrible must you look like one day standing there before Him unless your transgression has been paid for and wiped out by those “closer to God”, and who may put in a “good word for that poor sinner”. The best advise I can give is to bless all things and as they happen in your life.
#5 by petermlopez on March 2, 2009 - 11:46 am
CS, it’s an interesting questions, and I have yet to come up with a satisfactory answer. I expect that one day we will know, but it’s one of those great mysteries so far.
Hans, I agree with your last little bit of advice re blessing all things as they happen. I have to take issue with the notion of tithing/giving as tipping. I don’t think God is the least bit interested in a financial thank you.
#6 by Hans Zeunert on March 2, 2009 - 4:06 pm
Hi Peter,
Thank you for your grace still answering after my rumbling on about what I think about tithing, and belief systems in general, instead of sticking to the question. Why 10% ? Well, we have 10 fingers which form the basic to our decimal system. To our self-conscious state of mind this is easily understood. Basic accounting is done with fingers: 1, 2, 3 … and so on; the last one “you give to God”, whatever, easy to see. Common expenses, like building places to worship, or engage in projects like road construction and irrigation after finally settling down having reached the promised land, and not forget to pay for armies to defend the state. (I think I start rambling again.) If you want to be a leader acting in the Name of God, then you cannot carry the money on your belt anymore, because money, or gold, is the source of all evil. You have to set easy rules to run a tribe turned nation, and maintain your state of transcendence. How is that for an explanation?
#7 by petermlopez on March 2, 2009 - 4:26 pm
I think I agree with you in principle. However, money is not the root of all evil, but rather the love of money. I think tithing is a demonstration that one does not love money more than God. That’s certainly not the only purpose of the tithe, but I think it is one of them. I appreciate you reading Hans. Thanks.
#8 by tishrei on March 3, 2009 - 6:55 pm
Greetings, am enjoying your blog. Tithe is a tax something that the New Testament saints are not under. The OT tithe was a tax to support the temple & the priests. It was not limited to only 10% — in reading the bible, we can see that there are all sorts of other ‘required’ giving. The Israelites lived in a theocracy and as such, God instituted a taxation system to support His temple, priests, etc.
The commandment we are given in the NT is to give with a cheerful heart. You have to want to — no compulsion. To say “whew, made my 10% this month” is the epitome of legalism.
Why God chose 10% — He doesn’t say. We can speculate, some more educated than others — but in the end, when all is said and done, what He has not revealed in His word was not meant for us to know.
#9 by petermlopez on March 4, 2009 - 12:49 pm
I agree with you, for the most part, but I’m not ready to give up on the question of why God chose 10%. Thank, tishrei, I appreciate you reading.
#10 by Tishrei on March 4, 2009 - 6:05 pm
I read in your bio that you’re a lawyer. In our system, we are held accountable for what is ‘published.’ I cannot be ticketed for overnight parking unless there’s some law on the books that states overnight parking is prohibited. There also has to be signs but I am unclear on those rules. I know the rules — I cannot park on the city streets overnight unless I have an overnight permit. That much I know. Why is that a rule? I speculate that the city either wants to make money with overnight permits and giving tickets to those that do not have an overnight permit or to try and keep the curbs clear so that the street sweepers & garbage trucks can have easier access. I really don’t know but I suspect the former. Those are the reasons I come up with. Someone else may come up with something else.
Unless we are told by those that wrote that overnight parking prohibition or we can read the reasons why, it remains nothing more than speculation — perhaps my speculation is correct.
Nothing prevents you from asking about the 10% — it’s not sinful to want to know. But unless He reveals it in His word, you can only speculation. The canon is closed and there is no more revelation. God has chosen what He wants to reveal to mankind and the book of Revelation is the end of His revelation to mankind.
You can guess, you can speculate and it may be in the bible and I missed it — but unless it’s in His revealed in His word, it is NOT a “thus sayeth the Lord.” I can say “thus sayeth the city, no overnight parking without permit” but I cannot say “thus sayeth the city, overnight permits are for generating income to pay for the pound” because I don’t know.
Just be careful you do not teach that 10% is because of so and so UNLESS you can back it up with scripture that implicitely states this is His purpose for the 10%.
Blessings,
#11 by Tishrei on March 4, 2009 - 6:07 pm
boy oh boy on my typos — can you clean them up for me??? Please????
#12 by petermlopez on March 5, 2009 - 10:24 am
I agree the canon is closed, and I agree that one shouldn’t teach anything without being able to back it up scripturally – no argument from me. I don’t quite agree that there is no more revelation from God. There is no more in the way of scripture, but I think God gives revelation about scriptural interpretation all the time. I’m not claiming to have it regarding the question I posed, but I’m not quite ready to say the question is forever closed. And let me be clear, I don’t want to know so I can beat anyone over the head with another legal requirement – not at all – I’m just a curious kind of guy.
#13 by John on April 16, 2009 - 5:49 pm
Who said the canon was closed, again?
#14 by Fran on August 30, 2009 - 4:00 pm
There are a lot of posts about this, and it dates back a few months and I have read a few posts.
The reason for 10% is that the number 10 in the Bible represents wholeness and completeness. Therefore, by giving 10%, it represents the whole….God is so gracious that He allows us to keep the 90% for ourselves but by giving the 10% it represents the whole of our income.
Many blessings.
#15 by Peter on August 31, 2009 - 10:39 am
Thanks, Fran.
#16 by Hans Zeunert on March 4, 2009 - 5:15 pm
God chose 10% because of simplicity, and to bless institutions upholding His Name, and to keep His commandments alive. Jesus came later and explained it all. This is all speculation for sure. Dear tishrei, I believe He made us wanting to know, and I believe with all my heart He has nothing to hide. All you have to do is ask.
Hans
#17 by Mike on March 4, 2009 - 5:59 pm
Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return? Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it (Mal. 3:7–10).
There is no doubt that tithing was practiced in the Old Testament and even in the New Testament before Jesus was nailed to the cross. Sometimes you can wish that God had been just a tad more precise in revealing certain matters to us, but I think we can conclude that God wrote the tithe concept onto the heart of His people. That is why Abraham gave a tithe. That is why Jacob would do so. That is why Malachi spelled out His warning. This was a system of giving that God to provide for His ministers during the O.T. era. The storehouse was to be the collecting place or store house for the tithe. The storehouse was torn down in 70 A.D. and it has not been rebuilt. The New Testament giving was set by Paul and it is “Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.” I Cor. 16:2. Christians are under Grace, not Law. God does not require a Christian to give a tenth–He requires we give our all. We are to honor God with our very lives. There is no storehouse today–not on this earth. Perhaps there will be one when Jesus comes back as King of kings and Lord of lords. Then there will be a new temple and He will rule from David’s throne.
Some things can not be answered with a “thus said the Lord” we have to go with the flow of Scripture and believe that those Old Testament saints had some instruction or understanding from God that was not written down in sacred script. We know from experience that God blesses the first fruits–the tithe can be the first fruits if you like–He will also bless the second tithe. When God leads you to give–He will surely bless you when you do.
Ron E
#18 by petermlopez on March 5, 2009 - 10:28 am
When God leads you to give–He will surely bless you when you do.
Ron, I couldn’t have said it better myself.
but I think we can conclude that God wrote the tithe concept onto the heart of His people. That is why Abraham gave a tithe. That is why Jacob would do so.
That’s probably the best answer I’ve heard or read so far. Thanks. I’ll think about this one for a while.
#19 by jessesanythinggoes on March 6, 2009 - 10:47 pm
I cant say or will even try to anwser that one ,I really dont know why a 10th, just to me its always has been that, but it is a great subject to consider even though not all will agree with everything, tahnks again for a wonderful blog article.
#20 by nahar on March 9, 2009 - 6:20 am
Actually the tithe is 23.3%. There were three tithes – 1. 10% of the produce of the land a landowner occupied for the Levites (because they had no land), 2. 10% of the produce of a landowner’s land for the feasts (could be sold and the money taken with you to buy food for the feast in Jerusalem) and 10% ever three years (averanging out to 3.3% per year) of the produce to feed the poor. The tithe was never money – always the produce of the land – i.e. food. No land, no produce – no tithe.
#21 by nahar on March 9, 2009 - 6:36 am
Regarding Mike’s quote from 1 Cor 16.2 – that’s not referring to tithing. That’s referring to freewill offerings that were given by the churches visited by Paul for the believers in Jerusalem. Paul was visiting these churches on his way to Jerusalem and collected their gifts as he went. Oh, and he wasn’t telling them to bring their donations on the first day of the week. The word “day” is assumed (inserted) and the word “week” in the Greek is “sabbaton”, which is the Sabbath. If we’re not under the law any longer, why are we then still under the law of the tithe?
#22 by petermlopez on March 9, 2009 - 12:29 pm
nahar, that’s an interesting take, I’ll have to think about that. I’ve never heard the tithe analyzed that way. You’ve given me something completely different to think about now.
#23 by Hans Zeunert on March 9, 2009 - 8:27 pm
Hi Nahar,
My wife insists that true tithing always refers to the gross income which means taxation on taxes, or it is not a clean deal anymore between you and God. It puts a damper on your supposedly joyfulness of giving. Otherwise, you can always deduct from your net income and therefore manipulate the amount of your tithe like buying RSP’s, deferring payment of your duties. Hans
#24 by Tony Isaac on March 10, 2009 - 5:56 am
Hi,
I am trying to choose my words carefully so that I do not come across as rude or condescending. The question of the tenth in all honesty has no relevance in today’s church, trying to rationalise or investigate from scripture why it is so is a sheer waste of time. The covenant God had with the children of Israel is completely different from the one we have with him now and as such the things God required in the old dispensation is quite different from what he requires in this new dispensation. The Old Testament required tithes, different types of offerings including sin offerings, trespass offerings, atonement offerings etc. not forgetting the laws on stoning, an eye for an eye and all the other related laws.
All God requires from us in this dispensation is faith and not a strict adherence to a legalistic law of 5%, 10% or even 100%. We have been redeemed from the curse of the law and now have in its place the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus.
Asking such questions about the 10% is almost like asking why God created the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil. And like Tishrei said, since we do not know why we can only speculate but what do we stand to gain by knowing why? In my opinion we have more important things to worry about.
#25 by petermlopez on March 10, 2009 - 10:25 am
Tony, I actually agree with most of what you were saying. And, actually, I would ask God why the knowledge of good and evil came from fruit, which fruit, etc. Why not? By all means, worry about whatever you want to worry about. I’m not especially worried about this, just curious. I’m glad you stopped by, but if you feel your time is being wasted, feel free to waste it on more important things. But, I think if you took some time to read some of my other posts, you would get the feel for my faith and probably agree with much of it.
#26 by Tony Isaac on March 10, 2009 - 11:45 am
Hey Bro, no way was my time wasted at all. I am only saying this because in the past I had assumed a very strong anti-tithe stance and I only recently realised that to tithe or not to tithe was actually irrelevant and what’s truly relevant is one’s relationship with God.
It is good to ponder on some things though but we may never get answers to them till we see the Lord face to face, so we might as well ponder on the ones we are sure to find answers to.
God bless.
#27 by petermlopez on March 10, 2009 - 11:48 am
No sweat. I’m glad you returned. I appreciate you very much. Thanks.
#28 by Hans Zeunert on March 10, 2009 - 2:19 pm
Hi Tony, I love your words and what you are saying, and how you say things. I would agree with you 100% if God were, what many believe, a function of time, or slightly differently expressed: living in time, wondering where His Creation is going. However, space and time are dimensions of His own Creation, and these two should not be mixed up with each other. The dimension of our Father is Mind, never changing, in Which we have our Being. Here we connect. As far as God is concerned, His Creation is perfect and complete, and His Son is healed and whole and one. Talking about tithing, I agree with petermlopez that this is just for fun. We do not have to worry about a thing. Hans
#29 by petermlopez on March 11, 2009 - 9:34 am
Thanks, Hans.
#30 by Tony Isaac on March 11, 2009 - 3:37 am
Thanks Peter, and very true words Hans, I guess I just have to learn to lighten up a bit. That said I do indeed have a question which has been bugging me for quite some time now, it is with regards to the trininty. Can we find any reference to it in scripture?
#31 by petermlopez on March 11, 2009 - 9:31 am
The short answer is, “no.” There is no direct reference to the trinity in scripture, although I believe the scripture if full of references to the three parts of the Godhead.
#32 by Tony Isaac on March 11, 2009 - 5:12 am
Oops, I meant trinity. Pls help my typo Peter. Thanks.
#33 by Tony Isaac on March 11, 2009 - 9:53 am
To tell the truth, I have some doubts about God being three in one or one manifested as three. I have looked at the popular scriptures used to back up this theory and they really do not seem to add up when there are put sided by side other scriptures. Well I guess it may not be an interesting topic to discuss though, I’ll just leave you in peace.
God bless you Peter
#34 by petermlopez on March 11, 2009 - 10:37 am
Tony: Quite the contrary, I think the trinity is a fascinating concept, although I’m certainly not an expert in the matter. On a very basic level, I think humans are created in the image of God, or, trinitarian, if you will-body, soul, and spirit. I think the Godhead reflects this as well. God is…well, God. Jesus is the physical person, the living, breathing, touchable God. The Holy Spirit is the Spiritual aspect. I know this is a very simplistic explanation, and not a very theological one, but it’s a way that helps me comprehend it.
If you want a good online blog resource, try out this blog’s content (it’s one of my personal favorites):
http://rdtwot.wordpress.com/the-defense-of-an-essential/
#35 by Pastor Eric on March 11, 2009 - 10:32 am
I think Hans has a great answer to the “Why 10%” question with his 10 fingers answer — pretty easy math. The tithe under the law was introduced to provide for those who would minister to the Lord and the people. It meant the nation of Israel lived on 90% and the priests lived on 110% (from the remaining 11 tribes). The principle of the tithe still carries over in the New Testament to provide for those who minister to the people of God and to finance the ministry of the local church. And the simple truth is that “where our treasure is, there our heart will be also.”
#36 by petermlopez on March 11, 2009 - 10:41 am
Spoken like a true pastor! Sort of flies in the face of the idea that pastors/priests/monks/etc. should live lives of poverty, doesn’t it? Thanks, Pastor Eric. I always appreciate it when you stop by.
FYI readers, Pastor Eric is actually my pastor. Perhaps that helps explain his funny math (just kidding), he’s actually pretty cool, most of the time.
#37 by Tishrei on March 11, 2009 - 10:42 am
I’ve been reading all the responses but one thought keeps running through my head. Let’s say someone somehow guessed the right answer — and it would be a guess or even a very educated guess that may hit the nail on the head. Let’s say someone found out somehow — what do we gain? Does it bring us closer to God? Is our worship of HIm any deeper? I guess I just figure that what He wished us to know, He included it all.
I guess satisfying our curiousity is not necessarily a bad thing — I’m curious about lots of things. I could be curious about where I originate so I do a family history. But I have a starting point and I gain something.
From my perspective, when I try and figure out things that God did not reveal, I don’t have a starting point and I spin my wheels only to end up with a guess and that guess does not bring me closer to God. And the last thing I wonder about if I do that — since He did not reveal it, is it something that He even wants revealed? IF He didn’t reveal it and He did not want to reveal something, then I can guarantee trying to find out something He chose not to reveal is the ultimate waste of energy — ’cause what He doesn’t want to be revealed ain’t gonna be revealed.
And I wonder how someone is going to find out something about God that’s not in the bible such as wondering why we have only two arms and not three.
#38 by petermlopez on March 11, 2009 - 10:58 am
Tishrei, I think the best way I can answer you is to say that I think scripture is still a progressive revelation. For example, as time and history progress, much more about the latter-day prophecies becomes more identifiable. In fact, if you go to the very earliest posts on this blog (Nov. & Dec. of 2007), I think you will find a lot that has never really been revealed, as you seem to define it, but is present in scripture waiting to be found.
Prov. 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a matter; to search out a matter is the glory of kings
I think this is true of much of scripture. I heard a remarkable sermon this weekend about all of the trials and tribulations that the Wesley brothers experienced simply because they preached the forgiveness of sins, something which we now take for granted. Our (the church as a whole) entire concept of “grace” has changed in the last 200 years, much less 2000. Why? The Bible is the same now as it was when they were preaching. So, no, I don’t think all that is to be revealed has been. It has been written, but not entirely revealed.
Also, I never intended this simple question to generate such interest. I thought I would simply ask a question I was curious about with not a whole lot of expectation. Perhaps someone would point me to a scriptural reference and my curiosity would be satisfied, perhaps not. But, the response has certainly been interesting.
#39 by Hans Zeunert on March 11, 2009 - 5:55 pm
Hey you guys,
Just look at the New Testament. Jesus explained it all. He said he is going to send us the Holy Spirit to get us out of our mess. When the ego is gone (the voice in upside-down perception), the Holy Spirit is gone and God’s Son is free. We can never reach God, but we can live without fear in Him, and to get there we follow the tiny little voice in us which gives us a second opinion of what to do behind the loud-mouthed ego requesting to bomb all enemies to shreds. Let things come onto you. Say yes or no; the easiest thing to do. The “Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit” is the covenant Jesus made with the Father after He rose to become “the Christ”, the Spirit of Man, to bring us home to join the Father in eternity.
Hans
#40 by Tishrei on March 11, 2009 - 10:16 pm
Hi, I should probably define progressive revelation as you may have a different definition that I do. If that’s the case, then we’re probably not on the same page. The reason I say that is that some view ‘progressive revelation’ as ‘continuing revelation’ and since I don’t know you, I’m not sure what you mean — so PLEASE do not take offense.
Progressive revelation is ‘the progressive character of divine revelation is recognized in relation to all the great doctrines of the Bible. .. What at first is only obscurely intimated is gradually unfolded in subsequent parts of the sacred volume, until the truth is revealed in its fulness.” (Charles Hodge). I guess it would be kind of like the trinity. We can see it in the OT but because it’s been fully revealed in the NT, we can see — or read back how God ‘progressively revealed” things and saw the full fruition of His revelation. We start off in Genesis and see in Christ how He progressively revealed the full meaning of this verse “I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.” (Gen 3:15 ESV)”
I have not had an opportunity to read your past blogs that you mentioned, but I will say this without reading. Progressive revelation is what He progressively reveals in His word. But He’s finished revealing to mankind — it’s now a matter of waiting for things to happen. When I see events happen, it’s not a matter of Him revealing but Him bringing to fruition what He’s already revealed in full.
Back to your topic on 10% — I don’t see that as something that He progressively reveals by supplying more information as scripture unfolds (which is what progressive revelation is). It’s a command that He gave the Israelites much like many ceremonial commands He gave the Israelites. For instance, “And the priest shall take some of its blood with his finger and put it on the horns of the altar of burnt offering and pour out all the rest of its blood at the base of the altar.” (Lev 4:30 ESV) — why the base of the alter where in Lev 9:12, the blood was thrown against the sides of the alter? Because God said so. Why 10%? Because God said so. And the question of the ages that people ask all the time and there are many different answers — why was the tree that contained the knowledge of good & evil where it was acccessible where God knew they would eat of it. There are a whole host of answers that have been offered but God doesn’t say so it boils down to a person choosing the answer that he likes best.
Take care,
#41 by petermlopez on March 12, 2009 - 9:31 am
Hans, I agree with you on that…I think.
Tishrei, I think we are getting hung up on the idea of “revelation,” but I respectfully disagree that God is finished revealing stuff to mankind. I firmly believe the scriptures are complete, but there is truth and life that is progressively revealed to believers, teachers, pastors, etc. about the scriptures for the edification of the body of Christ. Will the answer to my question be “revealed,” who knows? But, to say it won’t be is putting God in a box I’m not willing to put him in. I think “progressive revelation” is manifold. I agree it is what you are saying, but I think it is also much fuller than that. Believers, teachers, preachers, evangelists, etc. have those “Aha” revelatory moments all the time, or else we would still be stuck in the dark ages, figuratively speaking.
I don’t mean to argue, I completely appreciate and agree with what you are saying. I guess I have a much more expansive definition of “progressive revelation” than you do. And I certainly don’t mean to impose my beliefs on anyone, I don’t think I’ve tried to do that, or I hope I haven’t, anyway. I was just wanting some insight (if there was any to be had). And there are a whole host of things in the Bible that are beyond our comprehension, but I don’t think we should just leave it at that. I’m perfectly comfortable knowing that I will leave this earth not knowing all I want to know, but I want to learn as much as God will allow while I’m here.
#42 by Hans Zeunert on March 12, 2009 - 3:27 pm
The personal belief system is responsible for the generation of thought. It is the collection of the experience since birth, and the judgment one has passed onto the world. It sets the constantly updated operation system for the individual when we boot up, or are born into this world. Since everybody has a different past, our wishes or thoughts or drives are all different. Whatever RAM is left for communication, not much is left for openess and the exchange of thoughts. “How come the other guy cannot see my point? Isn’t is crystal clear to me?” I think the introduction of the idea of a computer system may help us understand the 5th dimension, our Field in Consciousness, which is the extension to Mr. Einstein’s 4-dimensional world, and that includes “the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.” Thank you for the attention.
How do you like that as a revelation I just had about an hour ago? These things come totally naturally. Thanks, Peter, for your support. I think we all need each other’s support to make the other feel good. That’s all we have to do. What do you say to that theory?
Hans
#43 by justme on March 12, 2009 - 3:56 pm
I see this post was written some time ago, I don’t know if you are even still following it. Maybe you found your answer, but I will leave this small snippet of info. There is much evidence of Hebrew being a pictographic language. After seeing your question I wondered if there was any connection pictographically. These are but my humble summations, so feel free to disagree, but I found it touching and maybe just maybe it will touch you as well. What I stumbled across was that ten was represented by the hebrew letter Yod. Which is a drawing of the Hand sideways (yod consequently also means hand in Hebrew). Its meaning is widely accepted to be G-d’s hand, also representing works. So maybe in G-d selecting the Tenth as the standard was so that His goodness may be seen through the offering of His people. Afterall Matthew 5:16 states,”Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. “
#44 by petermlopez on March 16, 2009 - 11:14 am
justme, if you will browse around, you will see that I write quite a bit about the ancient Hebrew pictographs. In fact, after I posted this question, my pastor also suggested that I study out the pictographs to see what they say about the tithe, so that is my next project. Thanks.
#45 by Scripture Zealot on March 12, 2009 - 7:51 pm
Hans, I can only aspire to be as strange and imaginative as you.
Jeff
#46 by petermlopez on March 16, 2009 - 11:15 am
Jeff…be nice. But, thanks for chiming in.
#47 by Hans Zeunert on March 13, 2009 - 5:30 pm
The “Unified Mind Theory” is a philosophy which tries to reconcile religion with science. It is possible to understand and show on paper the dynamics of Spirit in a supposedly all encompassing Mind. We look at Memory as a function of absolute time where “absolute time” is taken as the radius of a sphere which surface represents Consciousness as well as space-time, one expressing the other, and none without the other. The universe becomes to be understood as the Body of God’s Son. He lives in absolute time. The Breath of the expanding and contracting universe fills It with Life. The Unified Mind Theory describes a Model of Creation in 5 dimensions. It builds up by one dimension on Mr. Einstein’s 4-dimensional Field Theory. It adds Consciousness and Life and Mind. It has been designed to enlighten the world.
Sorry, I cannot help it. It just keeps bubbling up. I know, the above sounds like a big mouth full. I feel awfully sorry about it. It is not me, nor has it been premeditated. I can testify to Peter’s claim that revelation is an ongoing thing, a continuous process if you like. Look at Helen Schucman and her “Course in Miracles”. This was pounded into her. Poor girl had to die of cancer with all that stress.
Jeff, thank you for your comment. Normally, I am a rather dull and unimaginative person. It is my inner voice, speak “Holy Spirit”, which brings all these strange images or visions about. The Unified Mind Theory is just the outcome of my wish at my (accidental) baptism as an adult to satisfy my engineering trained mind, and to share my understanding with the rest of the world. This is a step beyond faith. That simple wish should not be that strange anymore. This idea of witnessing the world seeing the Christ, the higher Self, in the other person could bring me out off my dullness and sleep fullness, and I should not feel embarrassed to admit that I have been given instructions how to get Home, for myself, for my sake, and to feel free to write about it; whoever wants to know. All my questions have been answered; at least as they apply to me. There are no secrecy’s in God’s Mind. Thanks for listening to an old man. I almost could get excited about seeing and witnessing the “Second Generation of Man” rising, to Its fullest, in my life. (It is the wife who does all the tithing
Hans.
#48 by Scripture Zealot on March 16, 2009 - 3:31 pm
Jeff…be nice.
I actually meant that in a nice way. Normal is boring.
Jeff
#49 by petermlopez on March 16, 2009 - 4:03 pm
Of course. I know you did. You’re such a a nice guy. I was just having a little fun with you. Normal IS boring.
#50 by Scripture Zealot on March 16, 2009 - 4:34 pm
Now that’s not nice; messing with me like that.
(I deserved it.)
Jeff
#51 by Scripture Zealot on March 16, 2009 - 4:41 pm
I replied in the wrong spot. I can’t get used to these threaded reply thingies.
Jeff
#52 by petermlopez on March 17, 2009 - 2:46 pm
I love the threaded reply thingies, but, yes, they are hard getting used to.
#53 by Michael L. on March 16, 2009 - 7:29 pm
Well, I’m late to the party.
But having said that,,,
I have a problem with thinking something as important as the tithe was just chance.
#54 by petermlopez on March 17, 2009 - 2:47 pm
I agree completely.
#55 by DAVID on March 19, 2009 - 7:40 pm
There are things hidden in the Bible that are only for those that have eyes to see and wisdom…..we need to look and search for the answers by taking a little from here and a little from there. Im just gonna make the question of the 10% even harder……we all know that some commandments have more than one dos and donts….why is it then called the TEN commandment? In Egypt the Lord sent 10 plages to beat each of the ten pagan egyptian gods but why did they have ten pagan gods? always 10!!! just like we always see the number 7. 7 virgins 7 days of the week, how many times shall i forgive my brother?? up to 7?
……keep searching man you might just find the answer.
May Christ bless you!
David
#56 by John on April 16, 2009 - 5:50 pm
40 is a good number too.
#57 by Pastor Eric on March 30, 2009 - 4:05 pm
Pete,
I just found this info in the Robert Morris “The Blessed Life” series. Our Lifegroups are about to study it on Wednesday nights. Here is what he says about “10″ —
Tithing is a test of your heart. God asked for the tithe and people who have hard hearts complain and make excuses. It’s not about the ten percent, it’s a test of the heart.
Tithe means tenth. The number ten represents testing throughout scripture:
• plagues
• commandments
• change in Jacob’s wages
• days Daniel tested
• virgins tested
• Revelation 2:10 ten days of testing
God tests us with a tenth of our income and then He stands by His Word.
Interesting eh?
#58 by petermlopez on March 31, 2009 - 2:47 pm
David, thanks.
Pastor Eric, interesting. I’ll have to look into that material, it sounds like it’s right up my alley (although, I’ve always thought 40 was the number for testing?).
#59 by Eric von Atzigen on April 1, 2009 - 4:59 pm
yeah, that too. 40 is for when you don’t get it right the first 10.
#60 by petermlopez on April 2, 2009 - 10:16 am
So, where’s this material I’ve been hearing so much about?
#61 by Jason M Baird on October 31, 2009 - 12:36 pm
Hi Peter, I first want to thank you for sharing your insight into the pictographic interpretation of Gen 1:1. I have been studying that one verse for about 3 years which is as you said, full of inexhaustible wonders. The question about the 10% can also be interpreted in so many ways.
As you know the tenth letter of the hebrew aleph-bet is “yud or yod”. It represents hand/arm which is our authority over the world we live. By giving a tenth, we submit that authority back to God. I think this view ties together a few comments I have already seen in this forum… like ten fingers, the pictograph of tithe, and the ten commandments written by God’s own hand.
Some scriptures for thought,
Psa 102:25 – God’s hands achieve his plans.
Job 5:12 – Our hands achieve our plans.
Prov 16:3 – By giving our plans to god, we give our hands/Yod… our tenth back to God.
If you have the time, you might read an article dealing with “Yod” by Richard Amiel McGough who’s website deals with the finished canon and the symmetric beauty of it’s design.
You can find the article at this link,
http://www.biblewheel.com/Wheel/Spokes/Yod_Hand.asp
I try to stay away from Kabbalah, as it is not scripture, but sometimes you find a gem in all the dirt, this is Stan Tenen’s work,
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6883697077237953903&ei=P3XsSqLVIozOrALqu-iCBw&q=stan+tenen&hl=en&view=3#
May God bless you!
Jason
#62 by Peter on November 2, 2009 - 2:33 pm
Thanks, Jason. Actually, biblewheel.com is one of my favorite websites. I’ve spent a lot of time there over the last few years.
#63 by Jason M Baird on October 31, 2009 - 1:29 pm
Me again, just had some inspiration about the 10 and 40 being linked.
10 is the 4th triangular number in the sequence 1,3,6,10. 4 x 10 is 40
4th word is dalet/door or weakness (bend down to go through the door), 10th word is yud/hand or power.
יד יהוה
yud-dalet yud-heh-waw-heh translates to “hand of Yahweh” wich in gematria is equal to 40.
yud-dalet translates to “hand”
dalet-yud translates to “able / sufficient”
The “blood on the doorpost” in Exodus comes to mind. This was the shadow of God’s hands pierced on the cross.
2Cr 12:9 – God’s power (yud) made perfect in weakness (dalet)
Mat 7:7 – Knock (yud) and the Door (dalet) will be opened.
and this one is so awesome (because it is so personal), that I have actually copied the scripture!
Rev 3:20
“Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me.”
This is definitely sufficient!
God bless,
Jason
#64 by Peter on November 2, 2009 - 2:34 pm
Definitely great stuff. Thanks.
#65 by Pastor Roland D on September 16, 2011 - 10:19 am
OK, I will give my take on the subject. I do agree that we are under GRACE, but that does not mean that the law is done away with. In fact, Jesus expanded the law in many ways: i.e. The Law tells us not to kill (take innocent life). Jesus said that if we hate a brother without cause, we have committed murder in our hearts. We know that adultery is wrong (even a stoning offense), but Jesus said if we look with lust, we have committed adultery in our hearts. So the concept of going beyond the 10% (Law) and giving to Jesus 100% is sound – but remember that a tithe means 10%. If it is 5%, it is not a tithe. Anything over 10% is an offering in addition to the tithe.
Now as to the aspect of the Law, Jesus said that he had not come to do away with the Law, but to fulfill it. We could talk MUCH on this, but the point I make is that the Law is not done away with. To further my point, Jesus said, “And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail” (Luke 16:17). Last I checked, heaven and earth have not passed away. Also see Matthew 5:18: “For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.” Last I checked, all has not been fulfilled. Paul tells us that the Law is a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, which is to acknowledge Him as Savior and Lord. If Jesus IS our Lord, then I say that 10% is a starting point.
Anyway, just my take. I have enjoyed the reading!!