Comments on: Made in God’s Image: A Slightly Different Perspective on The Fall

By: petermlopez

petermlopez — Fri, 02 Jan 2009 15:50:39 +0000

Very thoughtful comment, pastor noel, I will have to give it some thought. Thanks for reading.

By: pastor-noel

pastor-noel — Thu, 01 Jan 2009 18:44:36 +0000

As he was, we now are. Please note the period; it indicates a full stop without further elaboration. Indeed our human side is quite incapable of comprehending this truth let alone manifesting it the world…or is it? As he was, we now are. God became man so that man might become god. (Gripe at st. Anthansinus and Augustine they said not me)
It is untrue!! We fall far short of knowing Christ let alone being anything resembling him! But only in a couple seeminly insignificant ways. First We absoulutly refuse to believe God when he says as he was we now are NOW, and he says it over and over in a hundred different ways so everyone has a chance to get it. Second verse just like like the first. Jesus said “But believe!” That measn what HE says NOT what we think. “Know ye not ye are gods?”
If and when you (collective) abdicate the rightful throne of God upon which YOU now sit telling God how and when and to what degree YOU are willing or not to BELIEVE the truth, and “be still and know I am God”, you shall know the truth and it shall set you free. We won’t even believe what we profess! Depending on your denomination (division of belief), you may believe some or all these to be true: by grace through faith we NOW have the mind of christ, the spirit of christ, body and blood of christ in our selves as “flesh of my flesh and bone of my bone” and our flesh being changed into image of his glory.(You may also consume his flesh just drive this point home for the hard hearted) We have a new name which always has the same surname “ben jesus” hmmm body,blood,spirit,mind, please tell me what part did God neglect to recreate new and in the exact likeness to Christ?? Oh yes, freewill. Damn it all to hell forever (not) because YOU don’t like God messing with YOUR kingdom and telling YOU who YOU are. Indeed the entire plan of salvation waits YOUR descision. All eternity waits and waits for YOU. And who gave YOU authority to decree that etrenity stop until YOU are ready to accept the terms? Hey you that’s MY seat!! Daddy says with a smile….did you make anything while I was gone?
God is independent undependent on what YOU think. Your belief or lack thereof affects only you and your relationship to God, adam, not Gods relationship to you for before you were formed he knew you. YOU still don’t know him like Jesus knows him. You must become like Jesus. Born again as jesus. It is HIS spirit in you isn’t it? Then who else could you be? The light will shine here or there it doesn’t matter really, however life here is sooo much more pleasant when you know who you are. We are all collectivly the Risen Christ. That is when you get tired of playing god, and as a Son of God start being…..god. Now get out of your daddys chair, he’s got work to do.

By: petermlopez

petermlopez — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 14:25:48 +0000

I agree, Vee. We have to become reborn into the likeness of the “second” Adam. Even then, when we are saved, we go through the process of maturing in our faith and spiritual development. It is a process on the macro (all of humanity) level AND on the micro (individual - you, me, etc.) level.

God obviously knew this would be a process from the beginning. Granted He gave us the opportunity not to have to do it this way (I think), but we are constantly and are continually in need of being made in God’s image.

Thanks.

By: livingjourney

livingjourney — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 04:01:08 +0000

What about this…

Gen 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
Gen 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

Then…

Gen 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

After the fall, Seth was born in Adam’s own likeness and in his image. We continue to be either born of Adam [every person is first born of Adam, except Christ, remember that is was the seed of the woman that would bring about the last Adam. ] then at salvation we are born again of Christ.

1Co 15:45-49 This, indeed, is what is written: “The first man, Adam, became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. The spiritual does not come first, but the physical and then the spiritual. The first man came from the dust of the earth; the second man came from heaven. Those who are made of the dust are like the man from the dust, those who are heavenly are like the man who is from heaven. Just as we have borne the likeness of the man who was made from dust, we will also bear the likeness of the man from heaven.

I just thought that this was interesting

Vee

By: Peter M. Lopez

Peter M. Lopez — Fri, 25 Jan 2008 18:45:00 +0000

Thank you for your thoughtful comment. Although I hesitate to reply to any anonymous comments, this one merits discussion. And if my assumptions or anything else I write is “off balance”, I am most eager to learn and be corrected.

First, I would never suggest that the fall of man was “good” or that God was pleased with it, quite the contrary. I believe I was careful to point out that I am in no way attempting to replace the idea that man’s fall was bad, rather to supplement it.

Second, God’s rightful ownership of mankind was never in question. Man’s rightful relationship with God, however, was. It is the redemption of mankind that was for God’s glory, not the fall. I do not believe God intended or wanted man to fall, but He knew man would.

I do not assume man seeing good and evil was good. Again, quite the contrary. I agree with you that it was not good. Actually, I do not believe man is equipped to carry the knowledge of God, and God in his mercy prevented that. What I am suggesting, however, is that there is more glory in God’s redemption of mankind than in the creation of mankind. God made man and saw that it was good, yes. But, God redeemed mankind and it was much, much better.

I do not quite understand your “repulse Himself” idea. Again, I do not suggest it is either/or, rather both. God made man in His image, and continued to make man in His image. The accomplishment came through Jesus.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Fri, 25 Jan 2008 17:47:00 +0000

Though we must always approach the “Word” without an “arrived” perspective concerning “our” understanding of the mysteries of God/mankind/the Kindgom etc…for it is not God who changes, rather it is our understanding that must grow, be built line upon line,(truth upon truth. God never contradicts Himself, but is not too oppose to contradict “our” understanding of Him/Script etc….

So I say all this to encourage your seeking out of the “mysteries of the Kingdom of Jesus/God…but I would like to raise your awareness to what may seem to be “off balanced” assumptions you seem to be making in such a suggestion.

1. You state…
“but man would not be what man was intended to be: redeemed.”

Response:
You seem to assume that in “reality” God was pleased with the fall of mankind… b/c in perspective of your views, the fall was neccessary for man to “continue” his journey or God’s journey to make ‘man’ in HIS image.Is “good” good and bad “bad” or not? God created mankind… and it was good. Mankind fell and it was “bad”. Not just that is wasnt not good but bad and so bad that the wages, the reprecussion of such action was death… Eternal damnation… eternal seperation from God! (Such seems to be a little of kilter to accomplish a process a journey!)
And I understand the anology you gave about “your child” learning to walk…yet the difference in the anology and the situation at hand is that your childs learning to walk and falling in no way causes seperation between you two or is evil in terms of your nature!
There is a large difference in the attempt to learn something and in so there existing challenges to over come AND the complete evil that happened that “cursing”/ destroying” of the image of God that mankind was created in!In the fall mankind fell short of the glory of God… The very “carrying of the image of God” that mankind of created in was lost!Such suggestion cant be aligned with happening of how God created mankind! God’s redeeming mankind was to restore HIS rightful ownership of mankind, and to mankind his carrying of the imagine/authority he was created in and for. For whom he obeys he is a slave unto. (Romans) In mankinds fall he became possesion of the enemy (satan) and in honesty lost in a very great measure what God intended of/for mankind to have/exist/live in! Redeemtion… restored what was lost…
Your childs falling and raising in seeking to walk in no way is destructive in nature to that which he/she was created in or that which “natrually occurs for her/him to “grow in their being created”!

You state:
“If the process of making man in God’s image was complete before the fall, man would not have become “like one of Us”.”

Response:
You assump that it “is/was” good for mankind to have become like God in the seeing/understanding such! Man kind was not created in the knowning of such “orginally”. Could it not have been “good” for mankind to not know/understand such? You assume that is was “GOOD” for mankind to see such (the difference between good and evil)if you will… God created mankind and said what He created was good!

I guess I see the situation to be in the the very nature a contradiction of good and evil… God and the very essence that He is that that makes Him God, and it existing that God would intend in His launching mankind into being created in HIS IMAGE that God would see it fit to repulse Himself in the very essence of His nature in the “continueing to create Mankind in HIS IMAGE”
The assumption you make in you suggestion in you posting is the foundation issue that must be assessed in the matter.

Just a thought!